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Old 05-26-2010, 09:10 PM
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Default The "official" clutch mods thread...how they work

A question came up recently about how each of the clutch mods work and the advantages & disadvantages of each. It sounded like a perfect opportunity to create a thread we could all share in building to be the definitive "clutch mods"¯ thread. Please share your opinions, point out where I got it wrong, or add new insight (or even other mods I missed).

I tried to keep this as non-technical as possible so we don't get caught up in techno-babble that has to be defined in order to be understood but figured it might be nice to define a few terms so we are all on the same page and to explain some basic concepts:
CVT Continuously Variable Transmission. The most common type of CVT in use for ATV's is the V-belt system employed by Yamaha and several other manufacturers.
Gear ratio. Although a CVT does not contain true gears (the High and Low ranges on a Grizzly are gears but they work outside of the CVT), the ratio of the number of turns the engine shaft makes compared to the number of turns the drive shaft makes is the effective gear ratio of the CVT. For example; if the engine turns 10 RPM for each 1 RPM at the drive shaft, you have a 10-to-1 (10:1) gear ratio = a low ratio/low gear. If you have 1 RPM at the engine for every 1 RPM of the drive shaft, you have a 1:1 ratio = a higher ratio/higher gear. Any ratio above 1:1 would be considered a high ratio/high gear.
How the CVT works:. The basic principal behind the V-belt type of CVT is that you have two pulleys that sit right next to each other with a V-belt running between them. These pulleys¯ can effectively change size so that the transmission's gear ratio can be changed. Each pulley is made up of two sheaves which are the halves of the pulley that the belt is squeezed between (imagine two large straight-sided salad bowls placed base-to-base to form a V-shaped space between them, getting larger as you move out from the center). The primary sheaves, which connect to the engine, can move closer or farther apart by virtue of a centrifugal weight system and the secondary sheaves, which connect to the drive shaft, have a large spring that hold the two sheaves together. The weights, which look like ~3/4" long pieces of ~1 1/2"¯ pipe, live in the outer or "sliding"¯ primary sheave and ride on ramps so that, as the weights are forced by the spinning of the engine shaft toward the outside of the sheave, they force the sliding sheave closer to the rear/stationary sheave making that pulley¯ bigger and bigger. Being spring-loaded, the secondary sheaves simply take up the slack in the belt by squeezing as close together as they can, given whatever belt is left to them by the primary sheaves. This is how the Grizzly CVT works and it automatically compensates for load and engine RPM to give torque when needed and speed when desired (within the limits of its design).
Although the CVT is sometimes referred to as a clutch, it actually is not (at least in Grizzlies). The Grizzlies do actually have a separate wet clutch that lives inside the engine/transmission case in the oil bath directly behind the CVT. This clutch disengages at very low RPMs (i.e. idle) so that no power is transmitted to the CVT. At RPMs above idle, this clutch essentially "locks"¯ so that all power is transmitted to the CVT. This allows the Grizzlies and other CVT systems that employ a wet clutch to maintain contact between the drive belt and sheaves at all times rather than relying on a loose belt to slip at idle (wearing out the belt and sheaves and causing unnecessary heat). The wet clutch system prolongs the life of the belt and the sheaves and just works better than the clutch-less "slipping belt" systems.

EDIT: See this thread for an excellent write-up and review by Jack (the ModFather) of a greaseless setup using a machined sheave and a stronger secondary spring. Good info as well as great pics for visual aids while reading this post.

See this thread for a spectacular 2-part video by Butch450 and The Modfather showing step-by-step installation of a machined sheave and greaseless weights and sliders on a Grizzly 450!

Below are the basic "clutch mods"¯ of which I am aware with my thoughts on each.

Heavier weights:
Referring to the weights in the sliding primary sheave, heavy CVT weights get "flung out" with more force than lighter weights would at the same RPM thus causing the sheaves to press together (raising the gear ratio) faster and requiring lower RPMs to go the same speed...but with less torque. You do not gain any top-end speed (you have not changed what the highest attainable gear ratio is) but you do loose low end because the heavier weights are forcing you into higher gear ratios faster. You end up at top gear ratio at a lower RPM than you would with lighter weights.
Advantages - Going any heavier than the weights required to place you at top gear ratio at a reasonable point below red-line has no advantage at all.
Disadvantages - You loose bottom end torque without any gain in top speed.

Lighter weights:
Light weights get flung out¯ with less force than heavier weights would at the same RPM. This causes the sheaves to press together (raising the gear ratio) more slowly thus taking higher RPMs to go the same speed...but with more torque. You gain more bottom-end torque because it requires higher RPMs to raise the gear ratio. Assuming you do not increase your engine's top-end RPMs, you may loose some top-end speed or it may take longer for your quad to get up to top speed (lots of runway). As a general rule, the weights in smaller displacement Grizzlies are lighter than those in the higher displacement ones. This is why you will read of such things as replacing half of the weights in a 660 with weights from a 450.
Advantages - Gives you greater low end torque. Inexpensive.
Disadvantages - likely to reduce your top-end speed.

Shim mod:
The shim mod increases the maximum distance between the primary sheaves and effectively lowers the entire gear ratio to give you a lower low end (more grunt) at the cost of taking the same amount off the top-end speed.
Advantages - gives you more bottom end pull for climbing rocks and plowing through high-torque situations. Inexpensive.
Disadvantages - you loose top end speed to gain the low-end torque.

Machined sheaves:
Sheaves can be machined for one of two basic goals or a combination of both.
A. More torque at the low end and/or a longer low-end range (greater amount of RPM range before quad speed is increased much). This is done by either making the "lower" part of the gear ratio curve flatter and, thus, increasing the slope of the remainder of the curve (making the speed to RPM ratio clime faster once out of the low range) or by actually lowering the low end (like the shim mod)...or both.
B. Higher top-end speed by making the primary sheaves come to minimum separation at a lower RPM. This also causes the gear ratio slope to be steeper since it is, within the same RPM range, ending at a higher point.
C. A combination of both. This leads to a longer and/or lower low end and a higher top end and a gear ratio slope that is very much steeper than the original.
Sheave machining is the only clutch mod I'm aware of that can increase/lower your low end while not reducing (or even increasing) your high-end top speed.
Advantages - Customizable RPM/torque/speed curve throughout the entire range.
Disadvantages - NOT inexpensive. Could turn out very badly if not done properly or it does not match your riding style/desires.

Cam plate mods:
The cam plate (also known as the fix plate) sits on the outside of the weights and is the other half of the equation for how much the sliding sheave has moved when the weights are at a given position from the center of the sheave. Technically, all of the adjustments made by a sheave machining can be duplicated by modifying the contour of the cam plate but, in reality, all cam plate modifications of which I am aware only involve adjusting (increasing) the angle of the of the cam plate so that the rate of increase from lowest gear ratio to highest is increased and the top end ratio is attained at a lower engine RPM. An example of cam plate modification is the Airdam mod as discussed in this thread http://grizzlyriders.com/forums/gene...h-setup-5.html

Greaseless vs. greased:
Just about every manufacturer other than Yamaha that uses a CVT uses a greaseless system. I don't know if that means Yami knows something they don't or vise-versa.
Greased:
A greased system uses (special) grease on the weights and sliders of the sliding primary sheave.
Advantages - It is hard to be sure about this so, I'm pretty much speculating, It could be that a greased system may be less prone to failure in highly dusty environments since the grease could allow the dust particles to move out of the way more easily than they might in a dry situation. Of course, enough dirt will eventually contaminate the grease to the point where it becomes a gritty paste and the clutch fails because of that. It is also possible that a greased system may work better in environments where it is more likely to have water enter the CVT housing (read, deep water crossings) because the grease will keep the water from causing corrosion of the aluminum sheave in the areas where the weights and sliders ride.
Disadvantages - The grease is a major pain in the to deal with. Cleaning and maintaining the CVT clutch is a time-consuming hassle.
Greaseless:
A greaseless or "dry"¯ system uses weights with a special low-friction covering and sliders made of low-friction material that allows them to move freely within the sheave without using any grease. Note that even greaseless setups use grease between the CVT shafts and the sheave bodies but you only have to deal with that if you completely disassemble the CVT.
Advantages - No messy grease to deal with except on the shafts. Easier cleaning and maintenance.
Disadvantages - Cost, other than that, none, if it works properly.

Stronger secondary springs:
Since the intent of the spring on the secondary sheaves is to take up the slack in the drive belt left by the primary sheaves, it stands to reason that this spring needs to be pretty beefy in order to squeeze the belt tight enough to where it does not slip excessively under power. Whenever you perform a modification that gives you more low-end, you run the risk of exceeding the ability of the stock secondary spring to keep the belt from slipping too much. For this reason, modders will often replace this spring with a stronger one.
Advantages - Reduces slippage in the CVT that can often be caused by other modifications.
Disadvantages - Increases stress on the CVT shaft bearings, possibly causing them to wear more rapidly.

Wet clutch springs:
There are springs in the wet clutch that hold tension on its weights and set the RPM at which this clutch engages. I have heard that some people have changed these to slightly stronger springs so as to increase the speed at which this clutch engages. This would sort-of have the effect of giving you more low-end but really, it would just make the engagement happen at, what I would consider, an incorrectly high RPM.
Advantages - Uhmmm.
Disadvantages - Sounds like a major PITA to do for no real gain. I almost expect to be challenged on this one.
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Last edited by Butch450; 03-11-2011 at 11:13 PM. Reason: added links

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Old 05-26-2010, 09:38 PM
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holy jeeze....

alot to take in. I will prolly have to read it a few times to get it all, but from what I have read so far it looks like good solid info. Many Dizz
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:40 PM
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Great write up, Dizz. A good intro to start clutch work.

My first mod was a roller weight swap. I went with 4x450 and 4x660.
Then 2nd mod was a 1.5mm shim. Over all those two gave me back low end that i lost due to heavier tires 27"XTRs.Cheap and highly recommended.
Currently I'm testing ///Airdam satge1-3 with a OE (700) weights. There's a difference but I only drove 2 miles and I need a bit more, then I'll swap the weights for lighter one and check again.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:20 PM
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Klaude beat me to it - GREAT write up Dizz!

CVT - 101

Everything you ever wanted to know about the CVT, but were afraid to ask..................

Stay tuned for install photos and comments on my new Greasless / Machined sheave
and secondary spring project - tomorrow night.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:31 PM
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Excellent job on the write up Diz. I can't wait to see what all gets added to this thread.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:32 PM
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GRIZZLY77, for the input, the more real-world experiences, the better.

Jack, can't wait...real cutting-edge stuff.

Jay, Thanks...me too.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:36 PM
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Just one snit picker from me...

10:1 would be a high ratio/low gear, 1:1 would be a low ratio/high gear

Other than that, looks pretty good to me
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieHo View Post
Just one snit picker from me...

10:1 would be a high ratio/low gear, 1:1 would be a low ratio/high gear

Other than that, looks pretty good to me
Yeah, I went back and forth on that. You are actually correct but most people (I say that...not being most people) seem to see it in their minds the other way around. The old Jethro Tull song "4.W.D." comes to mind where Ian Anderson sings "4 wheel drive, low ratio, 4 wheel drive!". Quite a fun song 4.W.D. (Low Ratio) lyrics - Jethro Tull lyrics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_(Jethro_Tull_album)
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:26 PM
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Great write up, this will certainly help out allot of guys looking into clutch work and modding. Or simply looking at the make up of the grizzly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DizGrizz View Post
Advantages – Uhmmm.
Disadvantages – Sounds like a major PITA to do for no real gain. I almost expect to be challenged on this one.
The advantages to stronger wet clutch springs is that it will give you more of a "snap" out of the hole.
If your running big heavy tires in thick clay mud, if you go to take off the wet clutch will slip longer because the engine cant produce enough RPM to make anything happen due to the extreme amount of resistance on the wheels, this bogs down the engine and will result in buddy pulling you out.

By having the clutch engage when the engine has more RPM there is more power being produced giving a quicker snap that is also good for wheelies.

The more sudden snap would probably not be wanted for those on rocks or general trail applications, as it reduces the control of smooth take-offs.




I would also like to point out that the secondary spring would be the force acting against the centrifugal force that pushes out the weights.
The strong secondary spring is attempting to take as much belt as it can for on the secondary sheaves, reducing the amount on the primary sheaves.
As centrifugal force increases with RPM on the weights, it fights the force of the secondary spring by pulling belt away from the secondary sheaves and towards the primary sheaves.
So in theory a stronger spring will act like your also putting in lighter weights as it will require more RPM to make the ratio change. Im by no means saying that this is better than lighter weights as how much the spring strength effects the centrifugal force is unknown and assumed to probably be quite minimal, but good to keep in mind while fine tuning.

A disadvantage to a stronger secondary spring is the increased friction against the sheaves causes more heat and wear on the belt. Being why simply putting in the heaviest secondary spring available to ensure no belt slipping is a bad idea. Go with as heavy of a secondary spring as needed to eliminate belt slipping, but dont go over bored.





Heavier weights are used by some of those with big bore kits. I believe gunny uses heavier weights. They have advanteges as the big bore kit may give a whole lot of low end power, and with heavier weights you can move that power band more towards the center again.
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Last edited by rob350; 05-26-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:36 PM
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Might be good to include this info also.

Quote:

PARTS

Primary Rollers

The 350s has 6 rollers total
The 400 & larger atvs has 8 rollers total

6 roller housing
6ea x 12 = 72 total
3ea x 12 + 3ea x 14 = 78 total
3ea x 12 + 3ea x 16 = 84 total

6ea x 14 = 84 total
3ea x 12 + 3ea x 18 = 90 total
3ea x 14 + 3ea x 16 = 90 total
3ea x 12 + 3ea x 20 = 96 total
3ea x 14 + 3ea x 18 = 96 total

6ea x 16 = 96 total (stock 350)
3ea x 14 + 3ea x 20 = 102 total
3ea x 16 + 3ea x 18 = 102 total
3ea x 16 + 3ea x 20 = 108 total

6ea x 18 = 108 total
3ea x 18 + 3ea x 20 = 114 total

8 roller housing
8ea x 12 =96 total
4ea x 12 + 4ea x 14 = 104 total
4ea x 12 + 4ea x 16 = 112 total

8ea x 14 = 112 total (stock 400 & 450)
4ea x 12 + 4ea x 18 = 120 total
4ea x 14 + 4ea x 16 = 120 total
4ea x 14 + 4ea x 18 = 128 total
4ea x 12 + 4ea x 20 = 128 total

8ea x 16 = 128 total (stock 550 & 600)
4ea x 14 + 4ea x 20 = 136 total
4ea x 16 + 4ea x 18 = 136 total

8ea x 18 = 144 total (stock 660)
4ea 16 + 4ea x 20 = 144 total
4ea 18 + 4ea x 20 = 152 total

8ea x 20 = 160 total (stock 700)


Stock 07 350, 09 550 & 01 600 has 14-gram rollers, with cover =16 grams.
Yamaha roller part# 4WV-17632-00-00

Stock 07 400 & 450 has 12-gram rollers, with cover =14 grams.
Yamaha roller part# 5GH-17632-00-00

Stock 07 660 has 16-gram rollers, with cover=18 grams.
Yamaha roller part# 5KM-17632-00-00

Stock 07 700 has 18-gram rollers, with cover=20 grams.
Yamaha roller part# 3B4-17632-00-00

SHIMS
Yamaha Part # 90201-225A4-00 washer plate, Thickness = 1.0mm
Yamaha Part # 90201-222FO-00 washer plate, Thickness = .5mm
Credits go to DEEZ on Highlifter.
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